Help us make griefing harder to do / 荒らし行為を難しくするお手伝い募集

[chino]

クールタイムの導入には賛成できません。

善良なプレイヤーが、悪質なもののために行動を制限されることは悪に屈することと同じです。

哀れなGriefing は、稚拙な行動で注目されることを喜び、影響力を持つことに優越感を感じます。

クールタイムの導入は、彼らに喜びを与えるでしょう。

彼らを苦しめるには、影響力をなくすことが一番です。

そのために他の方々が提案するGriefingの被害による「復旧」や「分解」ができることは重要です。

またGriefing の粛清のしやすさも重要です。

私たちがゲーム内で哀れなGriefingの行動を制限しようとしても、それを逆手に取られるだけです。

事態に対処する方が建設的でしょう。

1.クールタイムの導入としては、行動を制限するよりも、時間がかかるようにする提案をします。

殺人被害者と殺人者は、死ぬまでの時間を長く（事態の究明のため）。

連続して羊を殺す時間は今よりも時間がかかるようになど。

2.テストに協力します

＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿

I don’t agree with the introduction of cool time.

If a good player is restricted from acting for something malicious, it is the same as succumbing to evil.

Pitiful Griefing is delighted to be noted for his nasty behavior and feels superior to having influence.

The introduction of cool time will give them joy.

The best way to harass them is to eliminate their influence.

Therefore, it is important to be able to “restore” and “disassemble” due to the damage of Griefing proposed by other people.

The ease of cleaning Griefing is also important.

If we try to limit the poor Griefing action in the game, we can only take it back.

It would be more constructive to deal with the situation.

1. For the introduction of cool time, we propose that it takes more time than restricting actions.

Murder victims and murderers have longer time to die (to investigate the situation).

It takes more time to kill sheep continuously than it is now.

2. cooperate with the test

[Christoffer]

Another is making the means to make almost everything (especially things often made by griefers) recoverable or erasable.

This is already the case for most things that are possible to recover. We can work to cover the ones you mention, but they are a minority. The truth is that it doesn’t stop the griefers’ power though, because recovering is much more time consuming. A few minutes of griefer time could take hours to recover from, and this is what the griefers take pleasure in. That is what I think needs changing.

These are some examples where the difference between griefer power and builder power is more clear:

• Making live sheep instead of dead ones is a big task
• Making live trees instead of cut down trees takes a long time

You can’t “recover” these - you have to start from scratch every time.

I can’t agree with the first idea (the cool-down system) .
I’m sure it will make this game too complex to play.

Remember that this is an experiment we are talking about. Not a decision to be made without a real trial period. You may well be right, but you may also be wrong.

[sweetazuki]

Thank you for creating a place for countermeasures against Gleefer.

Killing livestock
Cutting down juniper and maple
Destruction of the furnace
Discard sterilized pads continuously on the ground
Setting a cool time for these will reduce the pleasure of the griefers.

Really interesting.
I would like to play while there are actually restrictions.
I would like to think about the troubles and balance that occur there.

[lilly-new]

復元が難しいアイテムは以下の３つでしょうか
・木(カエデ等)
・羊
・岩(壁含む)

誰かが人を殺すとアイテムが手から離れなくなり、足が遅くなりますね。
木や羊を殺しても斧やナイフが手から離れなくなり、クールダウン時間の間足が遅くなるようには出来ないでしょうか

荒らし(griefers)を見つけやすくなるのならクールダウンも効果がでると思います

[Summer]

This is not a good idea.You changed something very disappointing.I think it’s fine now.Too restrictive this game is not fun.Why not try to update something new?

[konkon]

要望です。
自分の単独プレイサーバーにはクールダウンを適用しないでください。

[mia.a]

I still think there is always something better than cool down time.
However, I understand Christopher’s “Remember that this is an experiment we are talking about. Not a decision to be made without a real trial period. You may well be right, but you may also be wrong.”
Surely we may be wrong and we may be right.
Believe that you will listen seriously to the voices of the players who have finished the trial period, we will first cooperate with the trial period.
The real intention is “I don’t want to bother even good players because of griefers”

There is a topic discussing countermeasures against vandalism that does not depend on cooldown time.
It’s a Japanese topic, but there are also easy English translations.
I want you to know that there is also such plan.
https://forum.onehouronelife.app/t/suggestion-of-how-to-make-griefing-harder-to-do/5997/13

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私は今でもクールダウンタイム以外の何かいい方法が絶対にあると思っています。
しかし、クリストファーさんの言う“Remember that this is an experiment we are talking about. Not a decision to be made without a real trial period. You may well be right, but you may also be wrong.”も理解しました。
確かに反対している私たちが間違っているかもしれませんし、私たちが正しいかもしれません。
試用期間を終えたプレイヤーの声に真剣に耳を傾けてくれることを信じて、まずは試用期間に協力します。
本音は「グリーファーのせいで善良プレイヤーまで迷惑するなんて嫌」ですが

クールダウンタイムに依らない荒らしに対する対策手段を話し合っているトピックがあります。
日本語トピックですが簡単な英語訳もあります。こんな案もあることを知って頂きたいです。

[Christoffer]

要望です。
自分の単独プレイサーバーにはクールダウンを適用しないでください。
It is a request.
Do not apply cooldowns to your own single play server.

Yes, of course. This would only be to slow down griefing.

[Christoffer]

木や羊を殺しても斧やナイフが手から離れなくなり、クールダウン時間の間足が遅くなるようには出来ないでしょうか
Can you kill a tree or sheep and keep your axes and knives away from your hands and slow down your feet during the cooldown period?

With the cool down working as I suggested, you can do other things while the cool down is counting down. With your suggestion the player would not be able to do other things in the meanwhile. I think that would be too intrusive and affect many normal players instead of focusing on only the griefer behaviors.

[lilly-new]

With the cool down working as I suggested, you can do other things while the cool down is counting down. With your suggestion the player would not be able to do other things in the meanwhile. I think that would be too intrusive and affect many normal players instead of focusing on only the griefer behaviors.

It ’s true that you ’re right.

I think that the griefer countermeasures are not enough in the cooldown time that does not affect the general play.

I need measures to make the griefer easier to find.

If you are good, please join the test play.
I’m very happy to have fun with this game from now on.

ーーーーー

確かにおっしゃる通りですね

一般的なプレイに影響を与えない範囲でのクールダウン時間のみでは荒らし対策は足りないとどうしても感じてしまいます。

荒らしを発見しやすくする対策が必要だと思っています。

もしあなたが良ければ、ぜひテストプレイに参加させて下さい。
これからもこのゲームで皆と楽しく遊べるととてもうれしいです。

[tokibi]

I disagree cooldown.
Please kindly notice restriction for playing couldn’t be sanction for griefers, just be penalty for majority normal players.

[Tatiana]

but they are a minority.

I wonder how did you assess this?
In this thread, the many rate of Japanese people and others said that they want these features.

this is an experiment we are talking about.

Since experiments is the basic concept of User centered design, so I agree with that.
But, of cource including me, a lot of players got sensitive because of your previous update.
They are afraid that their favorite game will get destroyed.
Me too. I hope you have the empathy.

you have to start from scratch every time.

Please don‘t forget what this game is.
If the players of this game don’t like scratch, why do they try to be born in this game?
In the thread of “Upcoming new game mechanics”, some people are complaining to be born often in established towns or near.
If they don’t like scratch, it should be their pleasure, shouldn’t it ?
I believe they can enjoy the recovery process if they have the means.

Although I can understand the difficulty to keep balance between the monetization and good user experience, I think the lovable user experience will success to monetize.

And I’d like to propose one thing for your experiment.
How about asking the real griefers to join this experiment?
I think you will get more effective results by this way.
In Japan,some players are officially saying they are a griefer, for example しゅがみん on Twitter.

[Christoffer]

We can work to cover the ones you mention, but they are a minority.

The minority is the set of objects that can’t be disassembled. Most can, so they are the majority.

[EmberWolf]

There is no need to wake up more than 3 bears in a game. Wake Up Bear requires a limit or cooldown

As a professional hunter that enjoys the process of trying to get the whole family enough clothing, I disagree with limit to how many bears you can release

[mia.a]

Don’t turn aside from a subject, said, so, I stood it. But it’s written.

The player and Christopher opposing a cool down time seem to have difference in recognition.
The purpose of cool down time introduction will be
But the player’s purpose is
Though I’d like to play comfortably happily, it isn’t possible by a cause of griefers.
↓
They seem to obstruct comfortable play and the system introduced for it isn’t liked.
At this rate I think it’s also worthless to think it’s insignificant.

Even if a cool down time is introduced, griefing would happen.
Their patience sometimes surpasses imagination.(I can’t do to wait the goodness good player who shut himself off and was careless to come to a safety zone of a peaceful lily patiently. It’s too tedious.)
Consider the case where griefers complete the vandalism while doing another action between cooldown times.
For example when there are few villagers, it isn’t possible to notice.Even if I notice, there are no means to kill right now in a beginner server.
A curse point is saved, and may not griefres die immediately?
There are sometimes no ways to make them stop to fell all gum trees.
Would a cool down time be a help to a goodness good player in such case?I don’t think so.
Even if there is a cool down time when there is no recovery method, it’s insignificant.

It isn’t opposite to a plan of a cool down time no matter what.
I want using a cool down time as the last means after the recovery means are made in front of it.
I said many times, but a reason is because our fun play would be obstructed.
It’s hoped urgently to be able to understand my idea.

A behavior reason of griefres will be to see a flustered villager and do joy.
The recovery means are made. I think that also leads to help stability of villager’s spirit and take the pleasure of griefres away.

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主題からできるだけ逸れないようにとのことだったので我慢していましたがもう書いちゃいます。

クリストファーさんと、クールダウンタイムに反対しているプレイヤーには認識の相違がありそうです。
あなたがクールダウンタイムを導入する目的は、〈荒らし行為をしにくくすること〉でしょう。
しかしプレイヤーの目的は〈楽しく快適にプレイすること〉です。
楽しく快適にプレイしたいのに荒らしがあるためできない。→そのために導入されるであろうシステムが快適なプレイを阻害しそうで嫌だ。
これでは意味がないと思うのもしょうがないでしょう？

また、クールダウンタイムを導入したとしても、荒らしは起こるでしょう。
彼らの忍耐は時に想像を凌駕します。（私だったら、平和のユリの安全圏に引きこもりつつ、油断した善良プレイヤーがのこのこやってくるのをじっと待つなんて、退屈過ぎて出来ません。）
クールダウンタイムの合間にちょこちょこ別の荒らし行為をしつつ、荒らしを完了させた場合を考えてください。
荒らしにくくなったとしても、例えば村人が少ない場合はまず気付くことができません。気づいたとしてもビギナーサーバーでは抹殺する手段がありません。呪いポイントが貯まってすぐに荒らしが死ぬとは限りませんよね？
目の前で見ていても、グリーファーがゴムの木をすべて切るのを止める手段がないこともあります。
このような場合クールダウンタイムは善良プレイヤーの助けになってくれるでしょうか。
私はそうは思いません。
回復方法がないのではクールダウンタイムがあっても何の意味もないのです。

クールダウンタイムの案になにがなんでも反対という訳ではないのです。
その前に、回復手段を作ってから、最後の手段として、クールダウンタイムを使ってほしいのです。
理由は何度も言いましたが私たちの楽しいプレイを(たとえ少しだったとしても)阻害するだろうからです。
私の考えが理解していただけることを切実に願います。
回復方法をつくり、それでもグリーファーが目に余るのであれば、喜んで協力したいと思います。

最後に付け足すと、荒らしの行動理由は慌てふためく村人を見て愉悦することでしょう。
回復手段を作ることは村人の精神の安定を助け、荒らしの楽しみを奪うことにも繋がると考えます。

[Christoffer]

This idea of cool down has divided the player community. Some want to try it and some are dead against it. In order to properly test the idea, I think there would need to be more support than disagreement. Otherwise there is too much risk that we are just wasting time without coming up with a working solution.

So, I’m going to put this idea on hold. I don’t want to invest the time while half the community disagrees.

We will see if there are better ideas in the future, which gather more support. Maybe having the cool down only happen to people who have recently come back from banishment would be better, for example…

Anyway, thanks to many for being engaged enough to write your thoughts without resorting to attacking the people who think differently than yourselves!

// Christoffer

[Gunda]

Christoffer,
I just wanted to tell that you are amazing. Amazingly patient. I have not been following the argument meticulously, because I felt behavior of certain people are not nice and made me feel sick.
Take a good rest and start working harder to make this game much more enjoyable.
You have my full support (not sure what it’s worth )

[Mithril]

Shade, I understand that you are upset. My guess is there is much more going on in your life for you to be expressing yourself in such a way here.
This is a game, we just play it. Yes we choose to buy and download the app, but what the owners (creators, programmers, and stockholders) chose to do is really their business not ours. They are gracious for listening to us, but really they don’t have to. I have many apps that are never updated and problems are never fixed or even addressed.
In reading your comments, it seems that you very upset and venting. The proportion of your venting on the update seems a bit extreme. I am not saying I like some of the updates, but rather the amount of emotions you are having seem much deeper then just a game. The emotions that are coming out in your comments seem to point to deeper roots then just a little phone app.
You may be using the game as a way to relax or momentarily escape from what is happening in your real life…
If the update has effected the relax and escape aspects of the game for you, the feelings that you have been expressing may be more from the loss of that escape then for a person or program.
Your feelings are valid, you may have to do some searching to find the true sources, or roots.
Wishing you the best.