Balancing the new "Mother's Grief" feature / 「母の悲しみ」機能の修正について

Just a brief explanation, so we are all talking about the same thing: In version 2.8.0 we introduced a consequence for a mother when her children dies, namely that she looses parts of her food bar. It’s described under “Baby Abandoning Consequences” in this topic: Upcoming new game mechanics / 新しいゲームのメカニック

From the first hours of feedback since the update went live, it sounds like the effects became too severe. I’m starting this topic to discuss my ideas and yours, on how to achieve a better balance.

First, while abandonment has been a common cause for a child to die on some servers, sometimes it is actually the child which runs away. The best solution would of course be if the mother wouldn’t suffer any consequences when the baby player is to blame. This is extremely difficult for the game to detect though.

Second, the behaviour known as “Reset Marathon” (a player suiciding repeatedly as baby) is also a problem. It was also targeted in the same update (se Upcoming new game mechanics / 新しいゲームのメカニック again). The intention is that since it is now more difficult to do Reset Marathons, the number of “false” Baby Abandonment will decrease. However, this decrease will only occur once players have understood the new downside of doing Reset Marathon. It will take more than 24 hours for that knowledge to reach the full player community. For a game change to affect behavior, the person first has to know about and understand the change.

Third, there are griefers in the game. They make think it’s funny to “Baby Bomb” a mother until their play cooldown becomes too long.

Forth, there was another change in v2.8.0 which made the problem worse on servers with low population: " Amount of Children / Birth Cooldown". When making the birth cool down for a mother depend on how many living children she had, this also meant that on a low population server, a serial baby suicider could be born to the only woman on the server several times in quick sequence. That was obviously not the intention behind that change.

Since the type of server and its population matters to the balance of these features, it is very important that you mention which server you are playing on, or at least the number of players on the server, when you give feedback. Thanks in advance!

Current ideas for improvement:

  1. Make it so the same baby player can’t “baby bomb” the same Mother more than once in the mother’s life.
  2. Make it so a mother who has other living children, doesn’t suffer the same amount of consequence when a baby dies.
  3. Increase the Play Button Cooldown, to make Reset Marathons even harder.
  4. Balance the childbirth danger to women by giving them a reward when their children survive, for example by adding time to their life span. As a woman it would then be possible to live longer than 60 years. (Thanks for the suggestion @Heidi_van_Bergen)

If you have feedback about these 4, or other ideas you think might help, please join the discussion!

ーーーーー

ここで皆さんが同じトピックを話せるように簡単に説明すると:バージョン2.8.0で、子どもが死んでしまうと母親がフードメーターを失うという「子どもを放棄した結果」設定を追加しました。詳しくはこちらのトピックです: Upcoming new game mechanics / 新しいゲームのメカニック

アップデートがリリースされてすぐの頃から、この効果が厳しすぎるとのお声をいただいています。このトピックで開発の考えと皆さんの意見を交え、もっと良いバランスを作り上げたいと思います。

まず、いくつかのサーバーで子育ての放棄が子どもの死因の多くを占めており、それは子どもが逃げてしまうことによる場合もあります。もちろん一番良いのは、子どもの故意の死によって母親が苦しまないことなのですが、それを判断することはこのゲームでは大変難しい案件です。

次に、「リセットマラソン」(子どものキャラクターが立て続けに死んでゲームを終了する)と呼ばれる行為は大きな問題です。これについてもこのアップデートで対処しようと試みました。この目的は、リセットマラソンをすることを難しくし、結果「故意の」育児放棄も減少させるということでした。しかしながら、プレイヤーがこの新しい罰則を理解しない限り、その減少は見込めません。この新しい知識を皆さんが認識するのには最低24時間は必要で、それがうまく働くにはやはり皆さんがこの変化を知る必要があります。

三つ目に、このゲームには荒らし行為をするプレイヤーがいます。そういったプレイヤーが「ベビーブーム」を起こすことで、出産クールダウンが長くなる前に母親を苦しめて楽しんでいると思われます。

四つ目に、2.8.0でもう一つ変更された「子どもの数 / 出産クールダウン」が、サーバーの人口減少に拍車をかけてしまいました。出産クールダウンは母親キャラクターが何人の生存する子どもを産んだかに委ねられており、人口の少ないサーバーで一人しか母親がいない場合に、その人に一度に負担がかかってしまう結果になりました。これはもちろん意図した結果ではありません。

このバランスにはサーバーのタイプと人口によってばらつきが出てしまいますので、どのサーバーで遊んでいたかを明記していただくことがとても重要です。 もしくは少なくともサーバーの人口をお伝えください。フィードバックへのご協力、ありがとうございます!

現在考えている改善:

  1. 同じ母親に同じ人生で、同じ子どものプレイヤーが二度と迷惑行為のために生まれることができないようにする。
  2. 他に生存する子どもがいる母親には、同じ子どもを放棄した結果が起こらないようにする。
  3. スタートボタンクールダウンを増加し、リセットマラソンをさらに難しくする。
  4. 子どもがたくさん生存していることへの恩賞を作り、出産の危機を防ぐ。例えば、人生を長くして、女性は60歳以上生きられる可能性を作る。(アイデアは @Heidi_van_Bergen さんより)

以上の4つについてのフィードバック、またその他のアイデアもお待ちしております。どうぞディスカッションにご参加ください!

7 Likes

If we have kids at 39 we should still have milk till 42. I wasn’t fimiler with the new character age changes and starved a baby by accident resulting in grief.

Picking up a baby that is full shouldn’t result in mother losing food making it easier to care for baby while working, like moving the baby around the work area.

Baby carrier for future update, if possible.

Make baby care a bit easier to counteract the punishment. Just some small ideas not directly related to the mechanism.

8 Likes

i like the 1st idea. it seems like those two players don’t want to play together, so its okay when the system don’t let them play together anymore.

5 Likes

so if the game gives you 60 minutes of life span the first and last 3 minutes of the game are about a basic task: getting food in your belly. so there are 54 minutes you actually play the game.

as a female character you can have babies from 14 till 40. these are 26 minutes. almost half the time of your life span. two thoughts on that topic.

A) can we change the age to 18 till 37. this would give you an addition of 7 minutes without a baby. therefor its more likely to find a good place where your child and family can survive. and also you can feed your baby because you have milk till 40.

B) how likely is it in real life to get two babies 26 years apart. maybe we can change the mechanics so if your first child is born there is a limit of 10 years which you can receive other babies. so lets say you get your first baby with 18 you cant have babies after 28. so your kids wouldnt be apart more than 10 years.

1 Like

about idea number 4: @KazeNami suggested instead of giving the player more time by adding to his life span it can also be solved by letting the player run faster. if a player raised 3 kids he can run fast for 10 minutes.

Yes I thought it could be a nice extra for mothers who took Care of their babys since baby care ist taking alot of their time, they should get a little reward so that they are able to do more in the time after Babys are grown. :slight_smile:

1 Like

I like this one!~

1 Like

これに賛成します。
火起こしサーバーで検証した結果、2番目の人生の制限は意味がないことがわかりました。(受ける制限が5秒以下)
また、2番目以降の制限もほとんど意味がないような制限でした。
以上から、制限を最低でも2倍以上にするべきだと思います。
しかし、練習サーバーではこの制限から除外するべきだと思います。
理由としては、練習する人の中には連続で練習する人もいるからです。
そのため、この制限によって連続して練習することが困難になることが考えられます。

3 Likes

about idea number3:I don’t think this method can actually solve the problem

1 Like

3 posts were merged into an existing topic: Upcoming new game mechanics / 新しいゲームのメカニック

Oh, the third method is perfect. It will bring new experience to the game

My suggestion is to restrict the negative consequences to 3 suicidal babys total so that the mother wouldn’t just die (hopefully)
After three babys the mother can still have up to 3 babys suicide without receiving penalties
After six baby suicides the mother cant receive any babys anymore no mater what age they are currently.

1 Like

Though then what if someone is in a lovely family, but then you die of a boar and you say you come back, but you can’t anymore? Maybe the rule only counts for childs under 3.

3 Likes

right havent thought of that. i actually had babies after i was attacked by a boar. maybe we should also have a rule for not having babies while dying of an animal attack.

4 Likes

6 babies limitation is a good idea. sometimes i had up to 8 babies in a run or spawned to a mother who had lots of babies. its a bit much.

1 Like

Dear moderator, here I come again. Lol.
I like your idea. I think it makes my game easier. After all, it’s hard for a family to have more than a dozen children, isn’t it.

3 Likes

Mr. Christoffer, thank you for accepting our proposed changes. I think we need to make the following adjustments.
1 You need to know that sometimes the child died accidentally, and he still wants to go back to the mother. How can this be achieved?
2. In this regard, I think it can be limited to surviving children within 10 years of age. When the surviving child is over 10 years old, the death of the newborn will still make the mother sad. I kind of like the idea of sadness. It’s very human.
3.lol. This is necessary. Can effectively reduce the behavior of troublemakers.
4 In fact, I don’t like this idea, it will make me have to play games for a while. As a 32-year-old middle-aged man, my glasses will be very difficult. Lol. I love this game so much that I can’t leave him before I die of old age.

Japan1やビギナーの色々なサーバーを転々と遊んでますまぁたくさんの人が辛いなどと言ってますが…正直あっても無くてもという意見ですなんか4人?3歳未満で死んだら強制的に死んでしまうと聞いたけどそれはこっちは体験してないからよくわかんないです。ただ体力が5減るだけだったらフードチェインこなしていれば別に苦労しないんですけどね。むしろ、フードチェインをうまく使おうねとなるからそれがいいと思います
リセットマラソンしたプレイヤーは次生まれるときは別の家系に絶対産まれるのがいいと思います。別の母親から産まれるだと結局同じ苗字の村じゃんという事でその村で生きるのが1番嫌いなのに結局その村に産まれるんかいとなりますね。

1 Like

Just wanted to add another voice. I’m not a big fan of the “Grief” system. When I’m on a low pop server (ie EU2) and a baby runs, I’m happy because I want to explore / play around. I’ll try to raise them, but I’m a terrible Eve and I know it. Best case scenario, they get old enough to fend for themselves, I give them a basket and then they run and have their own adventure. Because of this, I play a lot on my private server and the great new No Kid server.

If I want a family, I go to US Beginner.

Rewards would be much better received than punishments.

3 Likes

Maybe my idea will be better?My ideas warehouse

1 Like